14. Increased Tensions with Unresolved 9/11 Issues

Top 25 of 2011 Oct 2, 2010

Several contentious issues still plague the US government and their version of the events of September 11, 2001. Those in political power along with media elites would like to see the ongoing grassroots debates surrounding unanswered 9/11 questions and discrepancies disappear, despite the mountains of evidence that suggest that American citizens were told little about the truth of the biggest single-day attack on their homeland in history. Nearly ten years after the events, many unanswered questions still exist: How did Building 7 fall? What caused the destruction of the twin towers? Where is Osama bin Laden? Are people that question the official story of 9/11 dangerous conspiracy theorists?

Student Researchers:

  • Mike Smith, Nolan Higdon, and Sy Cowie (Diablo Valley College)
  • Mikey Hemkens, Ryan Huffman, and Colin Doran (DePauw University)
  • Greg Bernardi (Sonoma State University)

Faculty Evaluators:

  • Mickey Huff (Diablo Valley College)
  • Andrea Sununu and Kevin Howley (DePauw University)
  • Rick Luttmann and Peter Phillips (Sonoma State University)

The academics and intellectuals who have tried to answer these questions have been ignored or derided by corporate mainstream (and even some progressive leftist) media, political pundits, and government officials who clearly intend to silence the so-called 9/11 Truth Movement, or anyone who questions the officially sanctioned government stance on the matter. However, the questions will not go away and increasingly beg for answers.

As of spring 2010, over 1,200 architects and engineers are calling for a new investigation into the events of 9/11. These building professionals and academics are motivated by the fact that the 9/11 Commission Report has been proven erroneous on multiple counts, scientific explanations have been flawed and contradictory, and the American people deserve a more fact-based explanation.

At the same time, new evidence of explosives that can be used in controlled demolition has been found in the dust traces of the World Trade Center (WTC) towers and Building 7 of the WTC complex. After careful examination of the official story about 9/11 (in which the commission never even mentioned Building 7), along with the forensic data omitted from official reports, these professionals have concluded that a new independent and transparent investigation into these massive and mysterious structural failures is needed.

Richard Gage, a San Francisco–based architect and founder of Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth, states, “The official Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) and National Institute of Standards and Technologies (NIST) reports provide insufficient and fraudulent accounts of the circumstances of the towers’ destruction.” Gage, along with other architects and engineers, attacked NIST’s first reports such that NIST eventually changed their conclusions, addressed new evidence, and released a new draft report in 2008. In the thirty days after the 2008 draft report was released, NIST took public questions on the report. Gage’s group sent a letter that covered myriad inconsistencies and omissions in the 2008 report. However, the final report released later in 2008 addressed almost none of the concerns raised. The scientific method was not adhered to in this study.

Gage and Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth’s actions pushed NIST to recognize that Building 7, a forty-seven-story skyscraper that was not hit by an aircraft, did come down at free fall acceleration for more than one hundred feet. An explanation as to how or why it fell at free fall speed was not provided by NIST. NIST continues to state that looking at the thermitic materials found at Ground Zero noted in the demolition theory “would not necessarily have been conclusive.” Despite their own claim that evidence of demolition is inconclusive, they decided not to test or address it at all, as if this could not and/or did not happen (see chapter 7 of this book for more details). Again, the scientific method was not fully followed by government agencies.

In other 9/11 related matters, there is the ongoing mystery regarding the whereabouts of the alleged perpetrator, Osama bin Laden. Even though bin Laden did not take credit for the incident (he in fact claimed the contrary, nor is the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) holding him as a suspect in those crimes due to lack of evidence) government officials of both parties regularly refer to bin Laden as the one responsible for the 9/11 attacks (see story #16 in Censored 2008).

Furthermore, Dr. David Ray Griffin, a former professor at California’s Claremont School of Theology and author of numerous books on 9/11 issues, suggests that Osama bin Laden has been dead for nearly nine years. He argues that bin Laden died on December 13, 2001, of kidney failure or a kidney-related illness. There are records of bin Laden being treated in an American hospital in Dubai for a urinary infection, often linked with kidney disease, and a related order for a mobile dialysis machine, essential to his survival, that was shipped to Afghanistan. Griffin, along with doctors that he cites, says it would be impossible for bin Laden to survive in a cave with that machine for any substantial period of time. Griffin goes on to note that the US and British governments are aware of bin Laden’s death, and have been covering it up to continue the war on terror. (See Griffin’s book on the subject, Osama bin Laden: Dead or Alive?).

In other ongoing tension concerning 9/11 on the home front, President Obama’s appointee to head the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA), Harvard law professor Cass Sunstein, claims that the United States government should infiltrate and discredit activist groups.

Sunstein’s call to discredit groups includes those who challenge the official views of the 9/11 attacks, the so-called 9/11 ‘truthers.’ Sunstein acknowledges that the US government has been involved in conspiracies in the past, but he confidently believes that this is no longer a problem. (See the Truth Emergency section of this volume for more on this issue, especially chapter 6.) He claims that groups that question the events of 9/11 are dangerous and could lead some people to violence (while presenting no concrete evidence to prove this).

Sunstein maintains that refuting these groups in public is not productive. He suggests that the most effective method of refute is to infiltrate and cogitatively discredit their internal sources. Sunstein is essentially calling for a return of the Counter Intelligence Program (COINTELPRO) from the cold war days when agents of the US government covertly infiltrated antiwar and civil rights groups with the intent to disrupt and discredit their activities—provoking violence or planning illegal acts themselves in order to bring groups up on criminal charges.

Sunstein’s call for infiltration of private citizen groups plays to the very concerns of many 9/11 activists—concerns that they may be targeted or infiltrated, tried on some trumped up terrorist or criminal charges, and then may not get a fair public hearing. (For more on this, see story #6 in Censored 2009, and story #20 in Censored 2008.)

Such a climate of fear and intimidation does not bode well for First Amendment rights, nor for academic freedom in the US, let alone the possibility of discovering the truth about what really happened on September 11.

Update by Shawn Hamilton

Over one thousand architects and engineers have signed a petition to reinvestigate the 9/11 destruction.

When I went to San Francisco to cover the Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth (AE911Truth) press conference, I didn’t tell the news department with which I am most closely allied; I was afraid I’d be told not to do the story. This may not surprise anyone considering mainstream media’s deafening silence on 9/11 issues, but this wasn’t an organ of mainstream media; it was an alternative radio station founded on principles that encourage coverage of underreported stories. To be fair, no news director said I couldn’t cover the story, and the story ran that weekend. The point is that I had felt constrained by the prevailing atmosphere of suspicion and fear surrounding media reception of 9/11 topics generally—including at this “progressive” station where people are sharply divided on the issue. I’ve never seen such general weirdness surrounding media coverage of an issue except for the Kennedy assassination. In the 1970s people mocked those few who suggested Lee Harvey Oswald didn’t act alone, branding them “conspiracy nuts,” just as 9/11 activists now are labeled “truthers,” which sounds like “flat earthers.” Some of these activists have embraced the “truther” tag, but I suggest they should refrain. The term is not meant to be a compliment.

I asked theologian David Ray Griffin, who spoke at the conference, why he thought the media was acting so bizarrely towards 9/11 issues. Griffin pointed out how the terms “conspiracy theory” and “conspiracy theorist” are manipulated to make reporters fear losing their reputations and jobs. “You know how it works. Everybody in the media knows how it works,” he said. “Nobody has to be explicitly threatened; they just know the rules.”

The press conference was a newsworthy story whether or not anything the group claims is true. It’s a valid story because so many citizens are questioning the official explanations for the tragedy of September 11, 2001. The fact that over a thousand licensed architects and engineers are demanding a new investigation increases that relevance. If what they say is even partly true, the implications are profound, but either way, there’s a legitimate story. I don’t expect news agencies to endorse the views of groups like AE911Truth; that’s not their proper role. I do expect them not to run for cover when they hear those unsettling words: “9/11.” Democracy is not served by reporters fearing to cover sensitive stories.

As of summer 2010, AE911Truth (ae911truth.org) has gotten more than 1,200 building professionals to sign its petition to Congress demanding a truly independent investigation, and a new group has formed called Firefighters for 9-11 Truth (firefightersfor911truth.org) that challenges official reports and public misconceptions of what occurred on September 11. A group called New York City Coalition for Accountability Now (nyccan.org) is attempting to convince the New York City Council to investigate the anomalous circumstances surrounding the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 (ae911truth.org/index.php/news/41-articles/286-nyccan-ae911truth-ask-ny-city-council.html). All the Web sites I’ve mentioned have links to some of the more credible 9/11 Web sites. The AE911Truth links page is a good place to start. I will be following related issues on this Web site as well: examiner.com/x-36199-Conspiracy-Examiner. My email address is lesseroftwoevils@rocketmail.com.

Update by Daniel Tencer

In May 2010, the New York Times Magazine ran a comprehensive profile of Cass Sunstein, the first such profile to be found in the mainstream media since the law professor took over as head of the White House’s Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA). The article’s title—“Cass Sunstein Wants to Nudge Us”—is an understatement given the views Sunstein has expressed over the years, but it at least heads in the right thematic direction: that much of Sunstein’s academic writing has been focused on social control and government control over information.

Not surprisingly, the article treated Sunstein with kid gloves and largely glossed over the more controversial elements of his ideas. It focused on him as one of the leading proponents of the concept of “libertarian paternalism,” a burgeoning new field of study that blends behavioral psychology with free-market economics and posits that people can be “nudged” into making the right choices (i.e., the government’s desired choices) not by laws and regulations, but by making the “right” choice seem more psychologically appealing.

Writing at the Huffington Post, Russ Baker criticized the New York Times for “burying” Sunstein’s more controversial assertions thirty-five paragraphs into the story, where we are finally told that he advocated for the “cognitive infiltration” of conspiracy theory groups. The Times then quotes Sunstein suggesting that, as a government official, he would not execute the more radical or experimental elements of his academic ideas. But, as Baker points out, that comment was made in the fall of 2009—before Sunstein’s paper on conspiracy theories came to light in the media. What appears in the Times to be Sunstein backing off his more controversial ideas is, in actuality, no such thing.

Understanding Cass Sunstein and his effect on government and society is made difficult by two things. The first is that he is a political chimera who has supporters and detractors on both sides of the political spectrum. Among conservative critics, the populists have come out against him, while the intellectuals appear to have thrown their weight behind him. Even as Glenn Beck declared Sunstein to be “more powerful than the Fed” and desirous of “controlling your every move,” columnist George F. Will declared that his ideas would lead to better, smaller government and would “have the additional virtue of annoying those busybody, nanny-state liberals.” In the UK, Sunstein’s works are “required reading for aspiring Conservative MPs,” reports the Daily Telegraph.

The second element making it difficult to understand Sunstein is that his position inside the government deals primarily with dry, bureaucratic issues that fail to capture the imaginations of either the mainstream press or the alternative media. As head of OIRA, Sunstein is responsible for reviewing all new government regulations. Yet thus far his decisions—those that we know of—have been on a small scale and largely technical, such as his call to streamline the process of naming and writing regulations so that citizens have better access to them.

Sunstein did, however, manage to anger environmentalists recently when he blocked a new Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regulation that would list coal ash as a dangerous carcinogen. Environmentalists accused him of caving to the coal industry, which doesn’t want to see its coal ash disposal costs rise under the new rule.

So where is Sunstein headed? Is he likely to attempt the sort of information control programs that he has advocated in the past? Even if he does, it’s likely the mainstream media will support at least some of his efforts to push the political debate towards an “acceptable” center. In a 2009 New Yorker review of his book On Rumors, Sunstein is given credit for predicting the circumstances that would lead to the rise of Internet rumors such as the “birther” claim that President Obama wasn’t born in the US, and the “death panel” allegation about health care reform. He is then cast as the hero fighting against these trends. Given the existing precedent, it’s likely that any attempt Sunstein makes at shaping the content of public information will likely find a positive hearing in the old guard media.

Sources:

PR News Wire, “1,000 Architects & Engineers Call for New 9/11 Investigation: Cite Evidence of Explosive Demolition at Three World Trade Center Towers,” February 19, 2009, http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/1000-architects—engineers-call-for-new-911-investigation-84768402.html.

Shawn Hamilton, “Over 1,000 Architects and Engineers Have Signed Petition to Reinvestigate 9-11 Destruction,” Examiner.com, February 23, 2010, http://www.examiner.com/x-36199-Conspiracy-Examiner.

Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth, “1,000+ Architects & Engineers Officially Demand New 9/11 Investigation,” Infowars.com, January 18, 2010, http://www.infowars.com/1000-architects-engineers-officially-demand-new-911-investigation.

Global Research, “1,000 Architects & Engineers Call for a Real 9/11 Investigation,” January 25, 2010, http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=17507.

Sue Reid, “Has Osama bin Laden Been Dead for Seven Years—And Are the US and Britain Covering It Up to Continue War on Terror?” Daily Mail (UK), September 1, 2009, http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1212851/Has-Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-seven-years—U-S-Britain-covering-continue-war-terror.html.

Daniel Tencer, “Obama Staffer Wants ‘Cognitive Infiltration’ of 9/11 Conspiracy Groups,” RawStory, January 13, 2010, http://rawstory.com/2010/01/obama-staffer-infiltration-911-groups.

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  • time to UNPLUG THIS ILLEGITIMATE CABAL RIGHT NOW

    needless to say, it’s long past time to UNPLUG THIS ILLEGITIMATE, MASS MURDERING CABAL RIGHT NOW! it’s long overdue. IT’S TIME!

  • jojo

    Let’s get down to reality–not one politician will risk losing their kosher grave buck$. One politician stuck her neck out and look what happened to her–lucky she ain’t dead taking part in the releaf to Gaza.
    Here are the facts, Only Israel could have pulled off the 9/11 attacks and no matter if it was OBVIOUS they did it. They are the USA home of the Brave and for them only-Land of the free. Notice all the media–HUSH Notice Hollowood HUSH Notice U.E. HUSH
    Only politician that has MAN’S real BALLS– is President of Iran. Yaah–Israel firsters did it. I noticed not a hint of Ashkenazies envolved in this article.What’s with the cover-up? Are we saying that some Arabs could have placed 120 x 2 Bunker Concrete Busting bombs in WTC1 2 without DETECTION. Please :^/

  • George
  • http://Thecompany randall

    Yes,
    The frame of reference among the 911 Truth community is the obvious:
    is Israel and the 5 Urban moving systems employees (Mossad) mentioned?
    “inside job” is a disinfo term put out there just for that reason.
    Our country has been infiltrated by an extremist group of Judaism since
    they instituted the Federal Reserve in 1913.
    Infiltrate and take over the Power centers: Government , media, and education.
    This has been done.
    Disenfranchise the majority by highlighting race differences between them and minorities, and calling anyone who notices this “racist” or “anti-semite” .
    Hmmmmmmmm…. is there an extremist group in the world who thinks they, and they alone were chosen by G-d to rule the world?

  • http://Thecompany randall

    Google and watch Missing Links. It’s definitive and links names faces and
    associations between elements within this group concerning what happened on that day, from the neo-cons to the media talkers such as
    Hauser (with CBS and Rather) to Silverstein and NY port authority.

  • http://Thecompany randall

    It doesn’t matter what you think about them that counts.
    You have too realize what they think of themselves that does.

  • http://www.kcls.org Richard Lee

    The problem is that in a predatory, monopolistic capitalist society money rules. To have a functioning democratic society you first have to have an independent mainstream media. The media however, are owned by rich corporate elites, many of whom got rich by illicit means, and who support those who support their corporate interests (Republicans). If justice were to prevail many of these would not only be without such funding but also probably be incarcerated for their crimes facilitating their ill-gotten wealth. So justice must be limited or blocked. Since justice provides the foundation for any civilized society we are then denied both democracy and a civilized society. The solution is obviously a truthful and objective media, but since the corporate media influences not only its customers but also the alternative media this is rarely provided for. We are thus left with little hope to find justice whether it be the JFK political assassination, his brothers, or on up through such covered up conspiracies to the 9/11 false flag attack. Hopefully Project Censored will provide that light we need to shine upon these conspiracies and offer the possibilities of reeffecting our democracy.

  • http://www.global-platonic-theater.com Dan Noel

    I’ll respectfully take exception to Richard Lee’s 10-11 comment. The magnitude of the 9/11 false flag was so big and its cover-up was so poor that its censorship had to provide an exceptional amount of work. As such, “we the people of the world” have, for the first time, objective evidence of a huge conspiracy to censor important information. The censors include literally tens of thousands of VIPs and outfits who had an apparent vested interest in denouncing 9/11. The analysis of the 9/11 censorship yields breathtaking conclusions and will potentially usher the human community into a very favorable paradigm shift. Details are available at http://www.global-platonic-theater.com.

    Love,

  • http://www.spl.org Richard Lee

    Regarding Dan Noel previous comment, the crime and cover up of the JFK assassination was just as big, but justice, despite numerous corrupted Blue Ribbion Commissions, was never found and the absense of any media investigative truth and pressure was similarly absent. In fact the media, a CIA asset, has always been complicit in all such major conspiracy crimes ever since. It’s that absence that has made the difference in forcing our corrupted politicians and our Judiciary to deliver justice and that has doomed us to the constant repeat and betrayal of these crimes and our democracy with them.

  • Kimberly

    Cass Sunstein takes advantage of comments such as the ones ‘jojo” and “randall” make above to argue that the 9/11 Truth Movement is anti-Israel, anti-semetic and therefore dangerous. Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, the New York City Coalition for Accountability Now, Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice, and the professional 9/11 Truth groups (religious leaders, firefighters, military personnel, medical professionals, meida professionals, etc, etc, etc) ALL have agreed to refrain from laying the blame for 9/11 at the feet of ANY specific entity, foreign or domestic, preferring instead to demand answers to very pertinent questions, and to present scientific research (such as the “Active Thermitic Materials Found in the Dust of the World Trade Center Catastrophe” paper published by Bentham Open Chemistry Journal in 2009), and information and analysis based on FACT. I see ‘jojo’” and “randall’s” accusations that Israel was the main force behind the September 11 attacks as disinformational — they’re either intentionally playing along with Cass Sunstein (performing cognitive infiltration) to misrepresent the 9/11 Truth Movement, or they have ignorantly fallen for disinformation fed to them, and are playing right into Sunstein’s hands.

    The fact is, none of us actually knows WHO planned and carried out the attacks — those of us who have educated ourselves about this issue for many years have some ideas, but they have yet to be proven in a court of law. The 9/11 Truth Movement is seeking the truth of what happened leading up to and on the day of the attacks, and why the response to the attacks was as it was. The longer we’re stonewalled, the more certain we are that we have very, very legitimate cause to demand a new investigation of this monstrous crime, with subpoena power leading wherever it will lead, …

  • Harriett

    Kimberly has the correct take with the AE911Truth movement. There is no benefit of entering into the blame game unless we find out EXACTLY what caused the towers to collapse. Why the collapse of Building 7 is even more of a mystery and the scientific facts should definitely be brought to light along with the towers. If it was controlled demolition of all three, then we surely need the who, what, when and why the explosives were planted answered. Capital punishment anyone?
    I well remember the JFK assassination and to this day I wonder at my naivete in believing the “official” explanation of the lone gunman. I completely bought into that theory and a Soviet involvement until we had two more “lone gunman” (King, Jr. and RFK) murders. I also know how skittish even the internet is about the JFK murder because twice, in posts on internet blogs, I mentioned by belief of who was behind it and was immediately blocked from any further posting. I was amazed as I am an old lady with no significance whatsoever!
    I hope the AE911truth people can forge ahead to bring their scientific findings and facts out in an investigation (with subpoena power) but I won’t bet on it. I suspect 9/11 will go the route of the murders and become just another coverup; even though numerous books with scientific evidence point to official explanations as very questionable. For starters, the timeline of the military’s response (or lack thereof) to the hijackings has never been nailed down.

  • George Kay

    It’s obvious to even the most gormless, that the officially mandated version of the events of September 11 is patently false. The question to all my friends who demand a new investigation is , ‘who is going to do the investigating?’ Every facet of the government and judiciary are on-board with this story. Those who have bucked the trend have been ridiculed or worse. So who will stick their neck out in this climate and take the initiative? Unless a mass movement of millions of Americans involving, strikes, marches, sit-ins and more occurs, nothing will ever change. No object will ever change its direction, unless a force acts upon it.

  • http://911research.wtc7.net/ alucientes

    @George Kay ‘It’s obvious to even the most gormless, that the officially mandated version of the events of September 11 is patently false.’

    I agree that one would think so.. and I wish this were true but clearly it’s not/
    I have been analyzing why for a while now. It seems people rather east glass than look at look at it. The implications are so ugly. I completely understand this and will make every excuse in the world to believe it is impossible. The entire thing, is after all, one greater improbable event piled upon another. (To paraphrase jim hoffman).

    It was only after removing everything but a few basic facts like, the FEMA BPAT), WTC7′s freefall implosion, the squibs, the astonishing level of destrutive explosiveness in the towers’ destruction which pulverized most of the concrete and 20guage corrugated steel floor assemblies, completely disassembled the massive (and highly redundant) superstructures in each one, (despite the fact that each sustained such a different angled impact) and blasted them hundreds of feet in every direction, leaving 1100 people officially unaccounted to this day They also caused massive pyroclastic-like clouds, ll in 15 seconds each.

    view the photos and videos of these events, (see North Tower Exploding on Youtube by David Chandler), look at the testimony of people who were there, the residual temps recorded by NASA and Bechtel (up to 2800F) -rain and constant FDNY water hoses going 24/7 (some much water that they were ‘creating a lake in lower Manhattan.’ -to quote a quote in the NY Times at the time) and still the fires burned underground for 99days. What is that? Not desks on fire! Molten metal, (see fema bpat May 2002). And yet even with aaallll of this (and precedence in the form of 100 plus years of hi-rise fire history), the idea that explosives were used in lower Manhattan on 9/11/01 is somehow relegated to fringe kookiness. Why? Maybe it is no different than the killer’s mother saying, ‘ Not my baby boy, no way he could not do such a thing.’ People refuse to believe their own leaders could slaughter them like pigs and if these things (‘conspiracy theories’ lol)were true, it would be all over the news.

    ‘None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe themselves free.’

    I have no clue how most aspects of the attacks were carried out (or what a barrel of oil looks like), most of us can only imagine, but that the attacks occurred is not in question. Simply coming to the realization that explosives (the type and in what manner is irrelevant for this purpose) were used is enough to know the entire thing was staged and needs to be properly investigated.

    A ‘proper investigation’ is one that consider ALL of the evidence, reveals every aspect of it’s efforts to the public, is impartial, and has subpoena power,
    -unlike FEMA which did not even test for explosives (despite clear NFPA regulatory obligations to do so), refuses to release the parameters they used in creating their WTC7 computer models and is a non-regulatory agency.

  • John Quindell

    Peace Ideas

    People would be more willing and less fearful of adopting the views of 911 Truth activists if they felt they were calling for forgiveness rather than retribution and punishment.

    The peace movement should call for granting amnesty from prosecution and guarantee of an ample, lifetime pension to anyone who agrees to testify on their roles in the events of 9/11, extending this offer to any members of the US government, foreign governments and/or terrorist groups involved in the planning or execution of the attacks of that day.

    Additionally, individuals should step forward and volunteer to spend time working with those who give testimony on crimes they have committed so that they might be reintegrated into society.

    Instead of executing Nazi war criminals we should have devoted all the human resources available to us to rehabilitating them, awakening in them awareness of the nature of their actions so that they could have come to understand that they must make amends. If they had remained alive they would have been a living testament to the transformative powers of forgiveness.

    Historians and psychologists especially should come out in favor of preserving invaluable study material in the form of the opportunity to converse with the authors of unfortunate historical deeds.

    We must find a solution to the existing state of affairs that would be acceptable to both the accusers and the accused. It should solve the problem it sets out to solve without creating additional problems. It should present itself as an ethical means to an ethical end.

    In “The Art of War”, Sun Tzu said never to surround an enemy. If you do not leave him an out, he will fight to the last man.

    For an interesting discussion of these ideas, see the comments to this article: http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_joseph_s_070414_a_9_2f11__22smoking_gun_22.htm

  • Brian

    Christopher Bollyn’s research shows clearly who was behind the attacks. No reason to take flight in fear at one glimpse of the “antisemitism” scarecrow. So Silverstein and his buddies did it to lock the USA into Israel’s war schemes, and the US fascists went along because it was their wet dream too. Big deal. I’m not offended. And of course, being 50% Palestinian/Lebanese, I’m much more “semitic” than an average European Jew, so I can hardly be antisemitic, can I? Oh, you mean anti-Zionist? You betcha!

  • TheHolyCrow

    So, whats up with the C-4 dug up at the Marble Cemetery not too far from the WTC site. Police say it was manufactured 12 years ago, and had been in the ground for years. Could one suppose that this was leftover demo material that
    was used to bring down the 3 skyscrapers ? Funny how the story came out nine (9) years one (1) month and one (1) day after 911. Maybe the bomb squad will dig up some NANO-THERMITE in the cemetery also.

  • Marks2Much

    Several people responding on this site are already trying to manipulate opinions by taking the blame away from Israel. Sunstein is jewish and in an influential position. Of course he’s going to deflect attention away from Israel. There’s nothing anti-semitic to point these FACTS out. For more on all this, visit this site: http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5367
    They’ve carefully connected the dots on it.
    Then pass the site along.

  • Asad Kayani

    I agree with what Kimberly says; carry out a truth finding investigation. give answers to-who had the capacity/resources/ingress to carry out the attack; how did building 7 and even the others come straight down; what materials were used to bring these buildings down(source of material used/manufacturing country). Only then can the AE911truth will come to rest, otherwise, this 1200 strength will multiply in squares to 1200.
    I am not an American, but I feel sorry for 95% good American people, and some of my friends. I am also positive that they are taken for a ride, and as Randall says, I quote:
    “Our country has been infiltrated by an extremist group of Judaism since
    they instituted the Federal Reserve in 1913.
    Infiltrate and take over the Power centers: Government , media, and education”.
    In our hearts of heart, most of us believe and know that a great and lovely country like America is not run by the Americans, but by v small group with in but controlled from with out. If I had any ny interest in the US politics, I would work for ensuring that all the power centers are demcratically snatched away. God speed & best of luck, Americans. And as jojo says, produce something like the Iranian President (I am not an Iranian).
    “

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  • http://n/a John Cameron Australia

    SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN EVIDENCE— PLEASE REFUTE.

    WTC 7 NYC 9/11 IN FREEFALL FOR 2.5 SECS.
    NOT IMPACTED BY ANY AIRCRAFT. MINOR FIRE DAMAGE ONLY.
    A SKYSCRAPER BUILDING 47 STOREYS HIGH TOTALLY DESTROYED IN 6.5 SECS.

    DAVID CHANDLER A U.S.HIGH SCHOOL PHYSICS TEACHER PROVE USING SCHOOL LABORATORY EQUIPMENT–
    “THAT THE TOP SECTION OF WTC 7 FELL AT FREEFALL SPEED FOR 2.5 SECONDS.”
    EQUIVALENT TO SOME 100 FEET.

    CHANDLER SENT THIS INFORMATION TO U.S. GOVT. AUTHORITY NIST AS HE DISPUTED THE PROFESSIONAL TEAM FINDINGS AS EARLIER REPORTED.
    DR.SHYAM SUNDER LEAD INVESTIGATOR NIST LATER CORRECTED GOVT. REPORT TO CORRESPOND WITH EVIDENCE PROVIDED BY CHANDLER THEREFORE ADMITTING THE FACT THAT WTC 7 WAS IN FREEFALL FOR 2.25 SECS.

    CHANDLER OPERATING ON A SHOE STRING BUDGET WAS THUS VINDICATED.
    PROVEN SCIENCE OF GALILEO & SIR ISAAC NEWTON TRIUMPHED OVER POLITICAL & “EXPERT” SPIN DOCTORING.

    FREEFALL.
    ANY PERSON WITH A MODICUM OF INTELLIGENCE WHO DOES NOT COMPREHEND THE ENORMITY OF THIS PROVEN FACT BASED SCIENCE IS NOT OF THIS WORLD.THEY ALSO DISPUTE PROVEN SCIENCE OF GALILEO & NEWTON.

  • Kay

    Excuse me, Israel had nothing to do with 911! However, the circumstantial evidence points to the Bush family/Saudi Arabia! Who was in charge of the security of the buildings “A Bush family member” Who was in charge of security at the airport the planes took off out of “Bush Family Member!”

  • stars

    Please remove and disable the comments for this. IT seems every idiot who gets pushed off of every other internet medium with their idiotic comments somehow gets their audience here.

  • Fidel

    Truthers lie.

    They mean the north face of WTC 7 fell briefly at freefall speed ( faster than freefall, actually ) not the whole building, right ? I mean nobody would actually want you to believe that the whole building came down at free fall speed would they ?

    Well maybe they would if they were someone like Richard Gage who makes his living suckering in the gullible like any other evidence free “profession” like a faith healer or psychic.

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  • http://ae911truth.org ResearchGuy

    “Fidel” accuses 9/11 truth activists of lying and profiteering. It doesn’t take a brilliant person to understand where the big profits “lie” on this issue.

    It is the government engineer/propagandists at NIST who would rather keep the discussion “evidence free.” As stated by others here, NIST refuses to test the World Trade Center dust for residue of explosives, refuses to release the full details of its mathematical models so that others could attempt to validate them, and pretends not to know the difference between thermite and nanothermite. That last is especially galling, given the “top 10 connections between NIST and nanothermite” (Google that). It was only after physics instructor David Chandler backed them into a corner at a public event that they apparently felt forced to acknowledge the more than 2 seconds of freefall (equating to more than 100 feet).

    Before that, WTC lead investigator Shyam Sunder denied that any freefall had occurred, accurately explaining that that would have had an acceptable implication: “no supporting structure” underneath the part that was falling at that unimpeded acceleration. What happened to the thousands of tons of interconnected structural steel that should have impeded the collapse? And how did the collapse proceed so symmetrically and thoroughly, all the way down to the ground at CLOSE to freefall acceleration even outside the 2.25-second period? There is only one explanation: an extremely ambitious and successful professional implosion with explosives, planned and prepared for over weeks or months before the planes hit.

    You either have to deny the fully documented facts and their implications, or you must update your understanding of how elites operate in the modern world. Alas, most people continue to find the first option more attractive.

  • http://ae911truth.org ResearchGuy

    Of course I meant to write that freefall had an UNacceptable implication.

  • http://www.projectcensored.org Peter Phillips

    9/11 Family Group: Judge Napolitano and Geraldo Rivera Are Right to Question Building 7 Collapse

    Contact: Manny Badillo, http://buildingwhat.org/contact/
    December 1, 2010

    New York – Today, the New York City Coalition for Accountability Now (NYC CAN), a group of family members of those killed in the 9/11 attacks, issued the following statement:

    We who lost our loved ones on September 11, 2001 vigorously applaud Judge Andrew Napolitano and Geraldo Rivera for the courage they have shown in publicly questioning the official claim that the collapse of World Trade Center Building 7 was due to fire.

    In the week since Judge Napolitano aired his views on Building 7, many voices in the media have singled him out for attack while conveniently ignoring the sequence of events that led to his revelation and the overwhelming evidence that validates his concerns.

    This past month, on TV screens across the New York Metropolitan Area, millions of viewers have been seeing footage of Building 7’s collapse for the first time ever. This is because we took it upon ourselves to produce and appear in a TV ad to draw attention to the fact that more than 1,300 architects and engineers publicly join us in challenging the official explanation that Building 7 came down due to fire. We were fortunate enough that Geraldo Rivera saw our ad and invited our representatives to appear on Geraldo At Large. There they presented the irrefutable evidence that Building 7’s collapse could not have resulted from fire as the government claims. Geraldo Rivera then appeared on Freedom Watch with Judge Napolitano to discuss our campaign and express his doubts about Building 7. The following week, Judge Napolitano courageously voiced his own opinions on this matter.

    However, you would not know anything about our position if you are getting your information from outlets like Media Matters and the Huffington Post. On November 29, Media Matters published an article entitled, “9/11 Victim Families Criticize Judge Napolitano Comments,” in which four 9/11 family members were quoted as attacking Judge Napolitano, without a single mention of the more than one-hundred 9/11 family members from NYC CAN who share Napolitano’s skepticism. One family member quoted in the article went as far as to say, “Anybody who talks about that is obviously not a family member and just trying to stir the pot and cause controversy.”

    We who lost loved ones on that day cannot stand idly by as our honest search for the truth about their death is trampled upon. We demand that Media Matters apologize for its unfair, irresponsible and injurious coverage of this deeply sensitive issue. And we call upon other voices in the media to follow the lead of Geraldo Rivera and Judge Napolitano, who have so courageously begun to question our government’s scientifically bogus explanation for Building 7’s collapse.

    For more information and to view the TV ad, go to: http://www.BuildingWhat.org

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  • channing

    To “Fidel”,

    Nice diversion Fidel. The name “Fidel” being singularly associated with a past cold war “enemy” and all while ignoring the fact that Fidel Castro is a 911truther today along with several other past and present world leaders who’ve made that point in public as well as the majority of the rest who just keep their mouths shut, according to Former Italian President Francesco Cossiga who also was directly involved in numerous false flag operations in Europe.

    Anyway, it is really funny that you ‘joke’ that the north face could have fallen without the south where all the smoke was bellowing. Since all currently available videos show barely any fire at all on the north face just prior to collapse, your implication is that the north face must have broken down at free-fall acceleration out of sympathy for the south’s smoking trauma?

    If the north face alone fell faster than the south face, then why isn’t the interior of the building revealed in even a single video of the dozens currently available? Ah, that must be the joke.

    And btw, a couple of the videos of the collapse are taken from elevations sufficient to expose such an asymmetric collapse as you wish to imply, and at least one I know of shows the entire penthouse and roofline descending in unison.

    Seeing you, Fidel, are the thus far sole critic of this important Project Censored item, perhaps you would care to educate them and me?

  • MG

    9/11 Truth

  • http://obbop.wordpress.com/ Obbop

    “There’s class warfare, all right, Mr. (Warren) Buffett said, but it’s my class, the rich class, that’s making war, and we’re winning.”

  • Brad

    This is nuts. Each of the towers was hit with a very large airplane. Fact. You can’t dispute it. The heat from the burning fuel caused supports to fail, and ultimately cause floors to pancake. It is as simple as that. Once one floor goes, they all go. Ask any structural engineer. Even those that are still in college.

    Oh, and by the way, a falling building (and its radius of high velocity, massive debris) can cause other buildings to lose structural integrity and fall. I’m surprised it didn’t do more damage.

    I can’t believe people are still doubtful about what really happened. A group of Islamic terrorists flew planes into our buildings, and brought them down. Islamic. Terrorists. Say it with me. I-s-l-a-m-i-c t-e-r-r-o-r-i-s-t-s. Now say it three times. Take a deep breath, clear your head, and say it again.

    So you think our government did this? The same government that can’t even balance the country’s checkbook? These people aren’t even capable of carrying out their sworn duties, let alone a massive conspiracy. Give me a break.

  • peckish

    Brad, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The “heat from the burning fuel” is not, repeat, is not hot enough to stress steel. The floors didn’t “pancake”. You are repeating ignorant information that any structural engineer could indeed refute. Over 1300 engineers (yes, including a lot of structural engineers) say the official story is bunk. Are you an architect or engineer? If not, don’t repeat misinformation.

  • ralph babbitt

    It is easy to find disgruntled religious extremists and allow them to hijack planes and then perhaps remotely control them into buildings. What is difficult is to get a building when it is 5% on fire to collapse at freefall speed into a perfect footprint. (see physics101)
    Was this event what Rumsfeld and Cheney needed to satisfy their comments in a paper in 1999 that “a pearl harbour-like event” would be needed before the American people would be behind a new invasion of Iraq.

  • JTK

    Peckish, please get educated on steel before making those claims. The malleability of steel goes up with temperature. You can google a graph of that if you like, but don’t claim that the heat was not enough to stress the steel. When any piece of steel is heated it loses structural strength. This is the very basis of the iron age. If steel did NOT get more malleable with heat then we would still be living in the bronze age, which we are not. You can observe this process at a backyard smithy, the kind of place where horses get shoed. Long before yellow hot, which is long before red hot, which is long before white hot, the steel or iron becomes weak enough to work with a hammer. By heating one area a smith can control where the bar will bend, as that one area is more malleable.

    Now, that brings you up to where the rest of the world has been for nearly 3000 years.

    As for the architects and engineers for truth, google them too. It turns out relatively few of them are structural or materials engineers and many are electrical engineers. Others disagree with having their names on the list.

    The floors DID pancage, that is visible on the video of the collapse. Please don’t make so many claims that contradict the evidence, it makes you look foolish.

    And yes, I am an engineer. Enjoy your day, and please please please don’t make those ridiculous claims anymore. If the truth disagrees with your fantasy version of steel, tough.

  • JTK

    Ralph Babbitt:

    The building did not collapse at free fall speed. Those claims are absolute garbage, they contradict the video evidence of the collapse. Feel free to look at the video again, you will see structural elements that have fallen well below the collapse region. This is indisputable evidence that the collapse is not happening at or near free fall velocity. Some guy on the internet claims it happened that fast, but the evidence contradicts him. The perfect footprint myth is, well, a myth also. Again, it contradicts the video evidence. There was a massive pile of debris, everyone remembers this. Are you really claiming that pile of debris didn’t exist, and it was actually all piled up on the buildings foundation and none left that foundation? That is what perfect footprint means. It is so obviously false that nobody that really understands it can honestly make that claim. I will assume you are being honest, so consider yourself more informed now than you were moments ago.

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  • researchALLwars

    the documentary “9/11 Ripple Effect” will show you evidence that is more than damning. Much more.

    Pancake Theory? Really? A theory BORN on sept 11 2001? My good friends:

    -The jet fuel WAS the great fireball during impact. Do you think that some unknown, sealed, intact portion of the jetliners fuel supply was left in that building- releasing over time to melt that steel? What do you think made the voluminous fireball which is ejected out, opposite the impacts? The entire supply of your steel-melting jet fuel is expired in 4 seconds.

    -How in this vast universe would even FIVE floors of “weakened” steel turn millions of pounds of re-enforced concrete, built 1300ft high and DESIGNED to survive jetliner impact, into DUST? Do you “engineers” *cough* even know what sections of steel you are talking about? The steel floor supports are trivial when discussing building skeleton failure. The skeleton I-beams in the core of WTC’s 1 and 2 are just under 5′x3′ thick made of 3″ plate steel.
    http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/wtc/construction-1.jpg

    I implore you to show me how a low-temperature office fire can even dream of weakening one those massive columns, let alone all of them.

    Right in front of your eyes (like the huge Fasci symbols in the U.S. Senate) is the end result. A pile of dust and shattered steel columns cannot possibly be made from an office fire. Read that sentence again.

    In the last hundred years, our sprawling civilization has seen dozens, if not hundreds of skyscraper fires- some of which engulfed the entire structure, top to bottom, for DAYS. Not hours. And the steel skeletons of these buildings ALL remained standing after the flames are extinguished. The absolute worst-case scenario involving a core-beam failure would undoubtably produce an ASYMMETRICAL collapse. These great towers fell straight down, symmetrically, at freefall speed. (JTK you are one washed fellow if you think you see anything else but freefall speed in ANY video.)

    On September 11th, 2001, this civilization saw its first THREE collapses from fire in a single day.

    I don’t even want to begin on the NORAD bullshit operations that were going on at precisely the same time. Where were our vast, trillion dollar air-defenses over Washington that day? We got buildings taking hits in New York, and a hi-jacked plane headed towards D.C., and nobody moves? Wow. I mean…. Woowwww.

    It is not the Government behind this. It is the powerful forces BEHIND our bumbling government who are capable of such slaughter. They have been doing it for thousands of years. The government is put there (on TV) for us to aim our hatred or admiration, while the controllers remain perpetually unseen. It is time for all of us to open our minds and STUDY the history of our species. It is certainly not the false tale of constant, upward progress that our rulers have indoctrinated us with through academia.
    .
    .

    You think you’re gonna learn the truth in SCHOOL? You better get on amazon and find a few books about the power elite. Head on over to youtube and hear some of the real teachers teach on subjects deemed controversial for that narrow reality tunnel in which you operate.

    9/11 is the most blatant psychological operation in a long, tragic history of psy-ops. Take a second look. Or just look away. I will choose option one. I hope, for the sake of us all, that you do the same.

  • JTK

    Congratulations on making the same mistake as the other guy. Heat weakens steel. Period. Proven, established fact. Add heat and you get weaker steel. Google it. The steel does not need to melt in order to weaken. I am certain you realize this, everyone who has real world experience knows this. You don’t need to melt a steel bar in order to make a horseshoe. You heat it and you pound it, by adding heat you need to pound less.

    And it goes further. Structural steel is high carbon. That carbon is released when the steel is heated. You can google graphs of that too, if you choose. The result is that when the steel cools down it has lost a portion of its carbon content, making it no longer high-carbon steel. If it gets hot enough, long before the melting point, it is no longer steel at all, merely iron. Please get an education. You spout off about materials science when you don’t understand high school physics. Do you know how people learned to make iron? By burning wood. Do you know what paper is made of? What office desks are made of?

    To make the kinds of claims you do shows clearly that you don’t understand the most basic aspects of the iron age. You are 3000 years behind the times and yet you spout off about how this all has to be a conspiracy.

    Once a steel frame structure is heated to the temperature of burning office furnishings and carpet, the steel loses a portion of its carbon content as well as increasing in length. As some elements were heated more than others, some portions of those structural elements got longer than others. Then the structure begins to cool, those elements that got longer and bent under the strain are now weaker and bent. All of this is proven science. The bent structural members are visible in photos of the building pre-collapse. This is not open to argument, it is established fact. Once several floors of weakened and bent structural steel were supporting the weight of the floors above a collapse was inevitable. Don’t claim steel frame structures haven’t collapsed before, you are obviously getting your information from liars with paranoia websites. Google it. Challenge your beliefs. You can and WILL find other steel frame structures with bent and twisted steel due to fire.

    But then, people like you don’t care about the truth. They only care about defending their twisted version of reality. One where steel doesn’t weaken in a wood fire (how the hell did we invent steel without wood then?) and where metal doesn’t get longer when heated (so thermocouples aren’t real?) and one where people like you can claim the building was taken down by explosives which the thousands of employees of the building didn’t notice and not a single demolitions expert agrees, whew.. the list goes on and on.

    I can and would prove to you how fire weakens steel, but you already know it. You know about horseshoes. You have seen wrought iron staircases. You can watch metals manufacturing on television, so you definitely know all of this. Yet when it comes to 9/11, you have to pretend not to.

    That should be a clue.

    PS. Before you speak about materials science you should try to understand the basics. Like high school for a start.

  • researchALLwars

    .

    “Please get an education”

    “You spout off…”

    “..you don’t understand high school physics.”

    “…clearly that you don’t understand the most basic aspects..”

    ” You are 3000 years behind the times..”

    “..and yet you spout off…”

    ” All of this is proven science.”

    ” This is not open to argument”

    ” Don’t claim this…”

    ” Google that…..” google what?

    “…people like you don’t care about the truth.”

    “..try to understand the basics. Like high school for a start”

    LOL !! ..Is that condescension I smell? Pretty stinky!

    Great arguments to my points though. Spot on.

    {facepalm}

  • JTK

    I notice that you don’t respond to any of the points I raised. You speak, but don’t address anything. If you had an honest response I must assume you would have brought it out, so that makes your response a dishonest one. Why speak at all if you can’t address the points? Only in a vain attempt to save face or deceive I guess.

    Lets see some integrity from you. Admit that heat makes steel more malleable well before the melting point, well within the temperature range of burning wood and paper. Admit that heat also makes the carbon leave steel well before the melting point. Admit that when steel is heated it gets longer. Admit that when that steel cools it will be more fragile and brittle due to the lower carbon content. This is all established fact that you can verify from anyone who does a craft remotely related to smithing. Try a body shop, there should be many people within a few miles of your home that can prove these things to you directly and in person.

    A little honesty couldn’t hurt, could it? At least, assuming your conspiracy theory would hold together without your ignorance of materials science. But then you know it won’t, which is why you prefer deception.

    Honest people can concede points, dishonest ones will do anything not to admit an error. Don’t play dumb when I tell you to google things, you know exactly what I was referring to. Your unwillingness to be honest is blatantly apparent. If you could refute what I said about steel you would have.

    Tell your conspiracy theorist friends about this topic. Lets see them all join in and try to refute established scientific fact. Or would you be ashamed of your inability to do it on your own? Your behavior reeks of shame as it is so lets up the ante. Lets see you be honest about the properties of steel. If you can’t tell the truth when it is staring you in the face then you never will and that means those who read this thread in the future will know how incompetent and deceptive the so-called truthers are.

    Bring it on. My guess is you will come back with more buffoonery rather than admit that steel gets weaker when heated. After all if you are right it should be easy to prove, no? Just heat a piece of metal over a wood fire and see if it gets easier to bend. In your world it won’t, in the real world it will. How simple could it be? So simple that you won’t do it because you already know what would happen, you already know I am speaking the truth, and you already know that you are caught in a trap where you either admit I am right or continue to play games and try to change the subject.

    At the heart of the truther movement is ignorance and lies. I have exposed your ignorance and your behavior makes you look like a liar.

    Once again, get an education. Your friends would probably be ashamed of you for not knowing what people in the desert learned 3000 years ago.

  • http://anti-ignorance.org TruthStorm

    Here they come… JTK, Brad, and Fidel – Welcome, Sunsteins “infiltrators”… Been seeing this on many forums lately. At least the “debunkers” / “infiltrators” seem to be sounding a little more intelligent these days, but they keep bringing up the same old parroted lines from MSM. They are only trying to get you to waste your energy. How did you find this thread in the first place, and what prompted you to read the whole thing, then come to the bottom and start arguing with other posters? You are too obvious, the jig is up. You are not going to convert a so called “9/11 Truther” back to a “9/11 Liar” (or whatever), while new people are waking up to 9/11 truth daily. I’m wasting my time right now… *sigh* Anyway, keep up the good work, Project Censored… “you are the resistance.” (As well as those of you patriots who continue to push for justice by any means possible.) Love and peace.

  • http://anti-ignorance.org TruthStorm

    Crap – JTK’s tactics worked! I just have to respond, I can’t help myself! :)

    1.) Massive fireballs consumed most of the jet fuel on impact.
    2.) Photo of woman standing where the plane entered the building (no massive hot fire there…)
    3.) Audio of firefighters reaching the area and saying the fire can be controlled with a couple of lines and they can “knock it out”.
    4.) Testimony of survivor who made it down from above the impact site. (Evidence the entire floor was not engulfed)
    5.) Dozens of witnesses reporting explosions, many caught on camera and audio, some on siesmic graphs BEFORE the collapse
    6.) Demolition experts testimony – WTC7 was an obvious controlled demolition (compare footage to other controlled demolitions)
    7.) Larry Silverstein says to “Just Pull It”
    8.) Video footage of “squibs” and molten metal pouring from the tower (as some of the incindiary ignited prematurely)
    9.) News agencies reporting the collapse of WTC7 before it happened
    10.) Security shut down the weekend prior to 9/11 (opportunity) – Security run by a relative in the Bush family
    11.) Many other buildings throughout history burned much hotter and much longer and did not collapse
    12.) Original WTC designers claim building can withstand multiple jet-liner impacts

    Yes, fire does weaken steel. But to assume that all of the steel on an entire floor (or several floors) is going to be weak enough at the exact same time to cause the entire top section to fall straight down, does not make logical sense. If there was going to be a “natural” collapse, then at most, the top portion would have fell to one side, maybe damged some of the floors directly beneath it, (up to a few dozen) but the resistance of all of the existing building materials would have diverted most of the falling debris to one side or another, through the path of least resistance. The duration / speed of the collpases are impossible without the aids of something to move the existing structure out of the way.

    Even if you can somehow debunk this information, you cannot debunk the hundreds of other “coincidences” about that day that just don’t add up. (Insider trading, CIA asset Tim Osman aka Osama bin Laden, NORAD stand-down, Pentagon testimony, deliberate coverups and lies, Commission members admitting a whitewash, Dancing Israeli’s who filmed the first plane crash, Obvious planted evidence, Impossible phone calls from planes, etc, etc, etc…) It goes on and on. You can’t win. The official story falls to peices pretty quickly for anyone who looks. Come to the bright side, we’re not so bad over here.

  • JTK

    Massive fireballs consumed most of the fuel quickly, yes. And as I mentioned above (how did you miss it, or are you pretending to have missed it?) burning wood and paper and carpet etc are hot enough to severely weaken structural steel. I have made this point before and I am sure you read it. Avoiding that issue is a typical approach for someone who seeks to deceive.

    Photo of a woman: sure. No problems there. Why, do you think that the fire had to be there in that spot continually from impact to collapse? That isn’t necessary for the collapse. If you are claiming it is necessary you will have to be more clear.

    Audio of firefighters: Cite your sources including what floor they were on and what stairwell at what time. Again, the fire did not have to be in all places at all times on any given floor in order to cause significant weakening of steel. Audio from one particular moment in a single spot says very little about where all of the fires were on al floors. I’m sure you agree, although you won’t admit it.

    Testimony of a survivor: see above.

    Dozens of witnesses reporting explosions: Not a single explosion is visible on the countless videos of the event. Websites have made that claim but demolitions companies have gone over many hours of video from many angles and they say that there are absolutely no explosions and that those explosions would have left clear signs in the dust cloud during the collapse as well as in the seismic readings. There were none. Your claims that those records exist are just stories from truther websites. If they exist then surely you will be able to cite your sources.

    Demolition expert: Cite your sources. Time after time conspiracy theorists have tried to get a demolitions expert to agree with them, yet to my knowledge no reputable person ever has. Demolitions, by the way, occur from the bottom up. The twin towers did not collapse in that way. The amount of det cord and explosives required would have been visible to the workers. The effort to put it there would have taken days and required drilling into support beams. Those explosives would then have to go off with the exactly correct timing on multiple floors below the collision point, and how could they know the collision point and exact angle of the aircraft impact in order to put their det cord in an area then knew would be undamaged by the plane? The amount of things that would have to be accomplished under the eyes of employees on multiple floors is staggering. If you know of a demolitions expert who agrees with the truther story, name him and cite the source.

    Silverstein: Demolitions experts from around the world state that “pull it” is not a phrase they use in their industry meaning to destroy a building. The building had an active fire and people trying to put it out. Cables were attached to the building. Those cables are visible in photos. Couldn’t “pull it” have meant to pull the firefighters out? Do you really believe that all of the demolitions people involved and all of the firefighters who were listening on their radios are part of this conspiracy? If not, why are they remaining silent for 9+ years?

    Squibs: Demolitions experts state that those are not squibs but pressure releases. On the many videos the behavior of these so-called squibs is that they spurt out and then increase with time, which is the opposite of an explosive. Here is a link which I expect you will ignore: http://www.debunking911.com/overp.htm

    Molten metal: Aluminum is a metal. It melts at a much lower point than steel too! See how easy that was? Note also that not a single person in the recovery effort reports seeing molten metal, despite the claims of truther websites.

    News agencies reporting the collapse before it happened: So, now the conspiracy has to include not just all of the demolitions experts in the world and a whole lot of firefighters and policemen on the scene at the time and countless bureaucrats but also the BBC! Somehow they knew in advance, so that means that the number of people keeping this secret must be measured well into the thousands. How likely is it that every one of them kept it secret all these years? Is it even remotely as likely as their mention being a simple mistake? Just how paranoid do you have to be in order to expect a global conspiracy involving thousands or tens of thousands of people to maintain perfect secrecy for nearly a decade? Quite paranoid, I would say.

    Security shutdown: Those were quite common in the twin towers. What about it? Are you saying that those security personnel were involved in installing explosives? How many more people are you going to add to this crazy conspiracy theory and how can you justify implying that all of those people are sociopaths? They would have to be, since some of them lost friends and relatives in the following days. Do you often see sociopathy in the behavior of others? That, oddly enough, is a sign of sociopathic personality disorder.

    Other buildings burned hotter and longer and didn’t collapse: Cite your sources. Building 7 burned for nearly 7 hours. In the history of high-rise fires, none has ever been left for 7 hours with its bottom floors on fire with structural damage from another building collapse. The claims that no other steel frame high rise collapse due to fire are false. Here is another of those links that you won’t read because it would correct you: http://www.debunking911.com/firsttime.htm Please notice that other smaller steel frame structures have collapsed due to fire. If a smaller one could, why not a larger one? How many flaws with this conspiracy theory do I have to point out before you start to question just how reliable your truther website sources are?

    Original designed claim it can withstand multiple jet-liner attacks: True.. back in an era when aircraft were far far smaller. Are you saying that those designers had a time machine and knew how large aircraft would be decades into the future? In case you are afraid to read those links, here is a quote from one of them:

    “It is impressive that the World Trade Center towers held up as long as they did after being attacked at full speed by Boeing 767 jets, because they were only designed to withstand a crash from the largest plane at the time: the smaller, slower Boeing 707. And according to Robertson, the 707′s fuel load was not even considered at the time. ”

    Now, to the rest of your comments. The steel on an entire floor would not need to be weakened in order for the building to collapse. That is a classic straw man. Were you aware of that, or was that little piece of deception an accident? An airliner had just taken out a significant portion of the outer structer on multiple floors. I have no idea where you think you got the expertise to determine what a “natural” collapse of a building is, so perhaps you can cite your sources. To someone with an engineering background that just sounds like nonsense. Have you never heard of momentum? What would give that upper portion sideways momentum in order to make it move to one side? Is it magic?

    Speed of collapse: The freefall myth is a myth. You can verify the claims below by watching a video and timing it. http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

    The insider trading issue has been dealt with also. Do you really think that the entirety of the investigators and media are in on it? Wouldn’t the have to be part of the conspiracy in order to lie about the insider trading? And what pentagon testimony? I can’t figure out what that refers to. Do you mean the eyewitness testimony I linked to earlier, where people mention the plane flying over their heads? I take it that means you won’t come back later and claim that was a drone or something. Obvious planted evidence? It can’t be too obvious, unless you are claiming that every single police officer and lawyer in New York is part of it. If it was obvious then anyone could have filed a lawsuit. Why haven’t they? Maybe its not so obvious. Impossible phone calls? Find a reputable source that says they were impossible. It is remarkably easy to find people who have made cell phone calls from airplanes before. Isn’t that clear evidence that you are wrong on this point? Remember, honest people can admit when they are wrong.

    I have debunked your claims quite easily. All of my claims can be properly sourced. I bet you wish yours were as easy to back up. The magnitude of the conspiracy you are implying must be measured in the hundreds of thousands, all of whom have kept their mouths shut despite the deaths of friends and family.

    As with most truthers you seem to hold your beliefs in a very religious way. Contradictory evidence gets ignored or those who criticize your beliefs must be part of the conspiracy (who is Sunstein anyway?) in order to preserve your crazy beliefs. The same can be said of the way creationists think. The similarities are remarkable.

  • http://anti-ignorance.org TruthStorm

    I can source everything, but frankly it’s already been done and I’m not going to do it again. Watch “Core Of Corruption”, “Zero: An Investigation Into 9/11″, “Fabled Enemies”, Michael Ruppert’s “Denial Stops Here” , “Press for Truth”, “Loose Change: An American Coup”, “National Security Alert”, “Zeitgeist”, “Reflections and Warnings from Aaron Russo” and Webster Tarpleys presentation on the war games going on that day. (You can Google or Youtube all of those)

    Read “Crossing the Rubicon” by Michael Ruppert, “New Pearl Harbor” or “Debunking 9/11 Debunking” by David Ray Griffin, “9/11 The Ultimate Truth” by Laura Knight, “9/11 Synthetic Terror” by Webster Tarpley. Read all of the information presented by Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. (ae911truth.org) Also Bollyn’s online book on “Solving 9/11″

    All of your sources can be found in there… (A lot of footage in these videos will also show that some of your claims above are false.)

    If you watch all of those films and read all of those books and you still feel the same way… Then most likely it is you who holds on to your beliefs too tightly. I actually hate the word “belief”, because it restricts true learning. I constantly read, discern, learn, reflect, and change with whatever information is presented to me. I too, was once like you and couldn’t believe what this information was concluding. But eventually the scales tipped, the truth became glaringly obvious, and there was no turning back.

    I have to go now to my real job and family, I don’t get paid to do this… I probably won’t be back on this thread. (Not out of defeat, only that I don’t have time!)

    (I like the diversionary tactic of throwing the “creationist” comment in there at the end… you guys are getting better! Although you’re still trying to belittle me, at least your not doing too much name calling…) :)

    Have fun in all your debunkery, you already seem well versed in a lot of the information the “truthers” spit out. (How convenient, although maybe you only watched Loose Change or something cause your information seems a little dated.) You can debunk and debunk all day, but at some point don’t you have to ask yourself, “Why do I have to debunk so many things to prove a story that should be true?”

  • JTK

    Riiiiiight… you can cite sources but you won’t? Rather than giving links to text files you expect me to watch unsourced video after unsourced video as if they were a substitute for sources? You can’t be that stupid. And then you expect me to buy books from truthers? All so you can pretend you have sources but just don’t feel like showing them? Why would anyone who could back up claims like yours refuse? It is unbelievable. Only someone who was trying to deceive would behave like you are behaving.

    You can’t respond to my points because you know I am right. You know your conspiracy theory sounds crazy. You know your beliefs contradict the video evidence and materials science. After all, if they were supported by science then countless scientists would be proclaiming it.

    You failed to defend your beliefs and now you run away. All of your blathering is just an attempt to save face. Another standard tactic, both for truthers and for creationists.

    I dare you to come back. I dare you to back up your claims with sources. No videos, no buying books from conspiracy theorists. Back them up or admit that you cannot. Everyone on the internet has seen the “I don’t have time to respond” lie. Nobody will believe you, but just using that lie might help some of the more rational truthers to realize how foolish their beliefs are.

    I enjoyed our interaction. By speaking up you have made all truthers look bad.

  • JTK

    Any other truthers willing to take up the torch? Honesty can deal with all comers, only liars and fools have anything to fear.

  • researchALLwars

    Sir, our sources are all over the internet- JUST like yours. Ha! Your comments are less-sourced than ours. Unless you count “get an education” as a valid source.

    Watch the films. You calling them “unsourced” is about as laughable as the time you have invested in commenting on here.

    Cass Sunstien is a power player from high academic/government levels who has vocalized designs of sending persistent misinformation agents like you OUT into the interwebs to do exactly what you are doing. If you’re not one of his trolls- then I suggest you contact him at the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. You could be getting PAID for it!

    The conspiracy is not vast. It takes a small handful of intelligent coaches- and an untold, large number of players who are as ignorant and trusting of the powers as you. Look up “Operation Gladio” to get a small idea of what these guys can do. We understand that it will shake your whole world view to the point that even the core breaks down – it happened to us. It’s not easy to accept. It’s certainly not pretty- but it IS directly in line with the history of absolute slaughter that our past is comprised of.

    Again. Watch the critically important documentaries listed by my man Truthstorm. At the end of these documentaries will be a library of sources which you can triple-check. You know…. just google it.

  • http://anti-ignorance.org TruthStorm

    “Show me the proof!”, says the blind man with his head buried in the sand. It’s all there, sourced and re-sourced, don’t get mad because you refuse to look. Trying to label the people or information as “truther” or “conspiracy theorist”, does not alter the facts and sources they present.

    Thank you for pointing that out ResearchAllWars, that it doesn’t take too many people to pull this off. Dozens, maybe a hundred at most, with other little workers running around not knowing the entire big picture. Standard opererating procedure. (Compartmentalization) However even if it did take more people than that, you have to remember the Manhattan Project, thousands working to build the atomic bomb, and Congress (or the public) had no idea about it until afterwards.

    The bumbling idiodic Congress / Government they show you on TV did not pull this off. Most of them were decieved just like you and I, and those that started putting it all together, were silenced with the threat of Anthrax mailings. The Democratic system in the US is broken, and the politicians you see on television, (including the Office of the President) do not have much power any more. This becomes more and more obvious, when analyzing the long list of Obama’s broken promises. (No offense to him, he is doing his job, to placate the masses. Other people “run the country”)

    There is a group of individuals who have positioned themselves in our system that have enormous control over the Military Industrial Complex and the large financial instutions.

    “There is a government inside the government, and I don’t control it.” – Bill Clinton

    “Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.” – Theodore Roosevelt

    “But, you know, there’s another group that really runs the show. It’s very shadowy, just as you’ve described… Those of us in the Congress of the United States are window dressing.” – Congressman Virgil Goode

    “A power has risen up in the government greater than the people themselves, consisting of many and various powerful interests, combined in one mass, and held together by the cohesive power of the vast surplus in banks.” – John C. Calhoun, Vice President June 27, 1836

    “A little group of willful men, representing no opinion but their own, have rendered the great government of the United States helpless and contemptible.” – Woodrow Wilson

    “The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy length over city, state and nation. Like the octopus of real life, it operates under cover of a self created screen. It seizes in its long and powerful tentacles our executive officers, our legislative bodies, our schools, our courts, our newspapers, and every agency created for the public protection. At the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller Standard Oil interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both political parties, write political platforms, make catspaws of party leaders, use the leading men of private organizations, and resort to every device to place in nomination for high public office only such candidates as will be amenable to the dictates of corrupt big business. These international bankers and Rockefeller Standard Oil interests control the majority of newspapers and magazines in this country.” – John F. Hylan, New York City Mayor 1922

    “The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson.” – Franklin D. Roosevelt

    “The government, which was designed for the people, has got into the hands of the bosses and their employers, the special interests. An invisible empire has been set up above the forms of democracy.” – Woodrow Wilson

    “There exists a shadowy government with its own Air Force, its own Navy, its own fundraising mechanism, and the ability to pursue its own ideas of national interest, free from all checks and balances, and free from the law itself.” – Senator Daniel Inouye

    “The real rulers of Washington are invisible and exercise power from behind the scenes.” – Felix Frankfurter – Supreme Court Justice

    “Great nations are simply the operating fronts of behind-the-scenes, vastly ambitious individuals who had become so effectively powerful because of their ability to remain invisible while operating behind the national scenery.” – Buckminster Fuller

    “You know, by the time you become the leader of a country, someone else makes all the decisions. … You may find you can get away with virtual presidents, virtual prime ministers, virtual everything.” – Bill Clinton

    “I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within.” – General Douglas MacArthur

    “The high office of President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American’s freedom, and before I leave office I must inform the citizen of his plight.” – John F. Kennedy

    This network of powerful individuals is not tied to a particular state or country, so I don’t like to say, “9/11 was an inside job”, or “Israel did it.” I do know that it required help from the US Intelligence agencies, a handful of private corporations, the intelligence services of Israel, Saudi Arabia, and possibly Pakistan. I don’t have all of the answers, but one thing is clear… there is no possible way that the official story that was told to us can be true. THAT ALONE is why many people around the world are requesting a new investigation.

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